This is enlightening, Stephan, thank you. Hardly anyone makes much money on these musical paths, especially nowadays, so any copyright infringement happening is probably of little financial significance to the possibly “offended parties”, and I’m sure it can be good listening. Depending on the prominence of uncredited use, I do question in that the lack of respect for someone else’s work. Wouldn’t what you are describing be basically a remix of sorts, even if no stems are involved, possibly to be considered a creditable remix of an artist? Of course, that might open Pandora’s box, so I understand why that’s not done …
I did have an early experience of someone giving what could be viewed as a barber beats treatment to a down tempo album I put out in 2007. Only problem was, this person was working on behalf of a modern style hotel, having been tasked with the job of arguably “barber beating” some records to create something different (that “didn’t need licensing”), leaning towards the ambient realm, for their rooms and lobby. He reached out to me first, so fair enough, but his “work” was so bad, and this being a commercially oriented venture, so I didn’t give permission.
I’d certainly be open minded and curious to hear barber beats versions of my music in a less commercial scenario, if it was innovative and good, and I’ll be checking out the barber beats you mention.
This is really interesting, Cato! And yes agree on all terms. I think calling these barber beats versions 'remixes' is a litte bit too much; in my world, there would have to be some serious rearrangement involved, but often these are really just slowed down and laced with effects (delay, reverb). But yeah, given the little financial incentive, I find this to be an interesting creative movement getting listeners out of their comfortable 'consumer' position.
I think collage is one of the most democratic forms of art making to emerge out of the 20th century avantgarde and its continued to carry on through the first quarter of the 21st. Visual collage, textual collage, and of course musical collage. I've been a long time fan of Negativland, Evolution Control Committee, Jon Oswald (I think he coined the word plunderphonics), People Like Us, Matmos and others for whom the sample is the basic element of musical creation. Of course hip-hop was just as into sampling an audio collage in its own way ever since two turntables started mixing things together. The various flavors of vaporwave are now part of this sonic heritage that is resplendent in divergent.
I haven't listened to much coming from the vaporwave genre much in awhile and wasn't aware of Barber Beats. Haircuts for Men was first thing I thought of when I heard the name of this genre though... so, fitting. Mallsoft was kind of my favorite subgenre in vape scene for awhile... thanks for pointing out some new beats.
There is a definite art to all of this, to the mixtape, to the sample, to the juxtaposition of sounds and repurposing them. May the glue hold on and may it continue for a long time to come.
Agree, Justin! I have had a bit of an on-off love affair with vaporwave for the last 13 to 14 years. I was really into Mallsoft for a while too, and I am currently llstening to a lot of vaporwave from the post-hype era (after 2015/16 basically) which is actually often just great ambient and electronic music.
As I point out in the article, I don't have a problem with sampling, as a life-long hip-hop fan that would be ridiculous. With Barber Beats, I do see there's a fine line between creating something new from a sample, and basically just taking something that you didn't create, slap some slowed + reverb filter on it, and then essentially 'selling' it as yours.
In essence, it all comes down to how creative you get with the sample – Puff Daddy might take a whole Police song and rap over it, but Madlib will be chopping up the tiniest loops and breaks to create something fresh and distinctively his. I think it's clear whom I respect more as an artist.
I'm really digging Macroblank & slowerpace album "The Era of Information" at the moment.
I agree with what you are saying here. I think it shows the beginning of creative engagement with the material to slow it down and add some effects, or to rap over a song. It takes very astute knowledge of a lot of music to do what Madlib does, and to go so granular and create something new out of multiple fragments. I think Vicki Bennett gets like that with her People Like Us records. So many samples and sources are used it really becomes something new.
But even for the people doing a slowed down reverb version of other peoples stuff and putting weird graphics with it, it is a kind of engagement with the culture, and having fun with it.
Another thing I love about vaporwave is how many subgenres have broken off from it...
I get that about the monetizing... its not far off from straight up piracy at that point. That was always an interesting issue within the copyleft discourse and hacker ideas around the "pirate party" etc.
Broken Transmission is one of the great subs to come out of that whole scene. (I feel like this is where it could all tie back in with Tim Hecker.)
Thanks for hanging & chatting about music! It adds so much to my day to have a good conversation about these topics.
Fascinating, thank you for the guide.
This is enlightening, Stephan, thank you. Hardly anyone makes much money on these musical paths, especially nowadays, so any copyright infringement happening is probably of little financial significance to the possibly “offended parties”, and I’m sure it can be good listening. Depending on the prominence of uncredited use, I do question in that the lack of respect for someone else’s work. Wouldn’t what you are describing be basically a remix of sorts, even if no stems are involved, possibly to be considered a creditable remix of an artist? Of course, that might open Pandora’s box, so I understand why that’s not done …
I did have an early experience of someone giving what could be viewed as a barber beats treatment to a down tempo album I put out in 2007. Only problem was, this person was working on behalf of a modern style hotel, having been tasked with the job of arguably “barber beating” some records to create something different (that “didn’t need licensing”), leaning towards the ambient realm, for their rooms and lobby. He reached out to me first, so fair enough, but his “work” was so bad, and this being a commercially oriented venture, so I didn’t give permission.
I’d certainly be open minded and curious to hear barber beats versions of my music in a less commercial scenario, if it was innovative and good, and I’ll be checking out the barber beats you mention.
This is really interesting, Cato! And yes agree on all terms. I think calling these barber beats versions 'remixes' is a litte bit too much; in my world, there would have to be some serious rearrangement involved, but often these are really just slowed down and laced with effects (delay, reverb). But yeah, given the little financial incentive, I find this to be an interesting creative movement getting listeners out of their comfortable 'consumer' position.
I think collage is one of the most democratic forms of art making to emerge out of the 20th century avantgarde and its continued to carry on through the first quarter of the 21st. Visual collage, textual collage, and of course musical collage. I've been a long time fan of Negativland, Evolution Control Committee, Jon Oswald (I think he coined the word plunderphonics), People Like Us, Matmos and others for whom the sample is the basic element of musical creation. Of course hip-hop was just as into sampling an audio collage in its own way ever since two turntables started mixing things together. The various flavors of vaporwave are now part of this sonic heritage that is resplendent in divergent.
I haven't listened to much coming from the vaporwave genre much in awhile and wasn't aware of Barber Beats. Haircuts for Men was first thing I thought of when I heard the name of this genre though... so, fitting. Mallsoft was kind of my favorite subgenre in vape scene for awhile... thanks for pointing out some new beats.
There is a definite art to all of this, to the mixtape, to the sample, to the juxtaposition of sounds and repurposing them. May the glue hold on and may it continue for a long time to come.
Agree, Justin! I have had a bit of an on-off love affair with vaporwave for the last 13 to 14 years. I was really into Mallsoft for a while too, and I am currently llstening to a lot of vaporwave from the post-hype era (after 2015/16 basically) which is actually often just great ambient and electronic music.
As I point out in the article, I don't have a problem with sampling, as a life-long hip-hop fan that would be ridiculous. With Barber Beats, I do see there's a fine line between creating something new from a sample, and basically just taking something that you didn't create, slap some slowed + reverb filter on it, and then essentially 'selling' it as yours.
In essence, it all comes down to how creative you get with the sample – Puff Daddy might take a whole Police song and rap over it, but Madlib will be chopping up the tiniest loops and breaks to create something fresh and distinctively his. I think it's clear whom I respect more as an artist.
I'm really digging Macroblank & slowerpace album "The Era of Information" at the moment.
I agree with what you are saying here. I think it shows the beginning of creative engagement with the material to slow it down and add some effects, or to rap over a song. It takes very astute knowledge of a lot of music to do what Madlib does, and to go so granular and create something new out of multiple fragments. I think Vicki Bennett gets like that with her People Like Us records. So many samples and sources are used it really becomes something new.
But even for the people doing a slowed down reverb version of other peoples stuff and putting weird graphics with it, it is a kind of engagement with the culture, and having fun with it.
Another thing I love about vaporwave is how many subgenres have broken off from it...
Genre as a e s t h e t i c.
Will download that Macroblank & slowerpace album right now.
Yeah it is an engagement with the culture and I don't want to downplay that aspect - it's just when you monetize it that it becomes difficult.
Yup love the subgenre madness too. Broken transmission is my thing!
I get that about the monetizing... its not far off from straight up piracy at that point. That was always an interesting issue within the copyleft discourse and hacker ideas around the "pirate party" etc.
Broken Transmission is one of the great subs to come out of that whole scene. (I feel like this is where it could all tie back in with Tim Hecker.)
Thanks for hanging & chatting about music! It adds so much to my day to have a good conversation about these topics.
Loved your recent adventures into vapourware, barber beats (and dubstep!!). My Bandcamp has been steadily filling up 💚
Thanks Martin, happy to hear that. I just love experimental music, in all of its various shapes, sizes and forms.